Kevin Titzer is an American sculptor, curator of music inspired art shows and an author of happy coincidence we have here. Kevin is currently curating an art show „Dig For Fire: Inspired by Pixies“ where many artists will be joining to show visual works, interpreting music from the band „Pixies“. One of those authors is Lee Petty (the man behind „Stacking“).
By some lucky coincidence Kevin stumbled upon our review of „Stacking“ and made first contact. We talked about art and games a bit and then I realized that I simply can’t let him go without asking him to answer few questions for us. Debates about games being (or not being) an Art is no secret to anyone paying attention to this medium. I witnessed and participated in many fiery debates on topic, but actually never had a chance to talk about it with an artist. So that was my chance to do it and I’m extremly happy to have both, Kevin Titzer and Lee Petty, on board.
„Flight Suit“. Kevin mainly uses scavenged materials for his works. All of his works are hand made, you can see more here: http://www.kevintitzer.com.
ingodmode: Let’s start it simple. Do you play video games? Have any favorites?
Kevin Titzer: I really admire how far games have advanced. The amount of thought and work that goes into them just blows my mind. Unfortunately, I rarely have much spare time these days. Working in my studio takes up most of my days and I usually don’t have time to do much else.
Lee Petty: Yes! I play a lot of games. I want to see what everyone is doing, but trying to stay „current“ on xbox360, ps3, PC, iOS, etc is almost a full time job by itself. It’s rare that I finish any one game nowadays.
But I have many favorites, each for different reasons — some visually, some mechanically, some thematically, and some because the total experience manages to add up to more than the sum of its parts. ICO is a game like that.
I’m currently playing Portal 2, which I think is fantastic.
ingodmode: Do you consider „video games“ as a form of modern art? Mind you, it’s not a simple question. We often discuss this topic with our Lithuanian readers and it’s usually normal to consider that some parts of the game like music or art work can be considered as a work of art in their own rights. Sometimes same goes to voice talents, when their work is considered as acting. But let’s talk about the final product as a whole, where various art forms intertwine.
Kevin Titzer: That’s a very difficult question to answer. People have been debating what art is forever. I think games have just recently turned a corner into something more a kin to personal expression. It seems like people are trying to fit a square peg into a round hole when they insist video games can only be entertainment or art and nothing in between. To me, video games seem to be a in a third category that is still being defined.
Lee Petty: Yes, I do. I also consider games commercial works of entertainment, but I see no reason why these ideas have to be mutually exclusive. Looking at art as an ethereal, almost unattainable entity that somehow exists outside of society is a very archaic way of thinking.
Picture of „Bees“ was first Kevins work I saw. It had a surprising effect on me, when brain ordered to send some shivers down my spine, but nothing happened. Somehow this piece is far from troubling or unpleasant it‘s rather... warm.
ingodmode: Each time when I get into debate about art and games, there’s always someone extremely negative out there. Sometimes it’s people not willing to accept games in their current forms and unable to imagine them in any other form, sometimes it’s artists from other fields opposing with arguments that games can’t be considered as a form of art simply because they’re aging too fast and it would be nonsense to have them in Art Galleries. To me it often looks like they are simply afraid of something. What could that be? I mean considering the fact, that video games in large parts are made of „other Art“ such debates looks at least strange. In your opinion, what „gaming related“ parts of the final product fuels those debates most?
Kevin Titzer: I really don’t know if artists feel threaten by video games, but I do understand your point. I think people in general have a tendency to mistrust the new things that they don’t fully understand. Video games don’t always fit neatly into what people in the arts have always known. So this makes it very easy for them to dismiss it.
Lee Petty: Art is about the process as much as the final product. A great painting takes the viewer on a journey into the process, the thinking, the emotion, behind its creation. Great games take players on journeys, too – but in their own way, differently than other mediums like painting or sculpting.
It’s true that games are still young, evolving, and haven’t refined exactly how that process works. I see that as something exciting, raw, and new. Others choose to look at that „newness“ as a way of denying games legitimacy as an art form.
ingodmode: If there ever would be an occasion to create a sculpture serving as a detailed model for the creation of a game character, would you accept such proposal? Or perhaps looking in such light change things? I mean in game your sculpture would come to life, quite possibly with it’s own features, character, voice and abilities. Such act could seriously change the way people observe your work in some cases even taking away the necessity of imagination and interpretation. Maybe skeptics are right and art ceases to be art when we put it into video game?
Kevin Titzer: Yes, I would very much enjoy such a project. I agree it would change the way a person experience my work, but I don’t see that as a bad thing. I’m always interested in exploring new ways to present my ideas.
In God Mode: Lee, I believe you‘re involved in quite oposite. As far as we know, you‘ve made real stacking dolls for „Dig for Fire Show“. I’m wondering if you cought yourself thinking of possible actions they could perform.
Lee Petty: No, I didn’t! But I did approach making the real dolls in other, similar ways. In Stacking, I always considered the relationship that the dolls belonging to a matched set had with one another. Their abilities, appearance and dialog would relate to an overall theme for the set. Their abilities had an effect when used in isolation, but when used in sequence with the other dolls in their set they brought about a larger change in the world.
And I brought those same ideas to the Pixies dolls. Rather than focus a doll on a specific song, I wanted them to all relate to some of the overall themes that I picked up on in the music. Sometimes specific visuals were inspired by certain lyrics, and other times the forms and colors just tried to capture a tone or mood. And I also wanted them to all relate to each other, so that they felt like a family—together making a larger statement than a single doll could do by itself.
Lee Petty's Pixie dolls. Hey! They're chained.
ingodmode: You’re curating music themed art shows so I think it’s quite safe to say, that music heavily inspires you in your work and daily life. I’m also heavily influenced by music, I love it and it plays truly serious role in my real and virtual lives. Sometimes I catch myself thinking, that music is the highest form of art, often serving as a tool to shape mood, source of inspiration and first aid in critical conditions. Then again, I’m looking at the way I „consume“ it, and it seems, that the main strength of music, speaking in gaming terms is the width of library and absolutely casual, non–obligatory approach. You can always have music where you need it. Then I think of games. Playing them requires special conditions and in most cases even the dynamics, outcome and depth of the game depends on your efforts. I believe Robert Ebert also used „player control“ as a main factor why games can’t be art. What are your thoughts on this matter? Do games have to change in order to become generally acknowledged as a work of art, or perhaps it is we, who should change the way we play (spectate).
Kevin Titzer: Music play a big part in my life. I can’t work in my studio with out it. As far as games needing to change their context in order to be consider art, I’d say no. I think the notion that games can’t be shown in art galleries therefore they can’t be art, kind of misses the point. There is lot’s of art that is not shown in traditional gallery settings as well as interactive and hands on art. At the end of the day I don’t think it’s important at all that games are defined as art. If tomorrow the world suddenly accepted video games as art, what would change? Would games be made any differently? Would the players get more enjoyment from their games? All that would be gained is a label. I think video games have a amazing amount of freedom right now. They can be whatever they want to be. Art has rules. Why would you want that?
In God Mode: I think Kevin has a good point here, though each part of industry might have a responce — funding, recognition, source of encouragement. Even for gamers such status might serve as an excuse when they could „consume art“ instead of „wasting prescious time“. But then again, I do use term „art“ quite casualy when talking games, and i don‘t need anyone‘s permission. What do you think, Lee? Should we even bother to participate in such kind of disputes, instead of enjoying our freedom to play in the backyard?
Lee Petty: I have to admit that a part of me looks at the „Are Video Games Art“ debate in a very punk rock way. Much of the debate seems centered around trying to get video games accepted as a legitimate art form — which is a fine goal, but I often think „Fuck you! I don’t care if you consider it art or not“.
In God Mode: Did you had a chance to play „Child of Eden“? Cause it‘s a diferent story here. Even if it would be possible to convince Cerberus of Definitions that „Child of Eden“ is a piece/performance of „digital art“, there is thousands of gamers who say that it‘s not a game! What are your thoughts about the game, or perhaps you also think that it‘s not actualy a game.
Lee Petty: I haven’t had a chance to play it yet! Who’s to say what exactly makes a game a game? Many hardcore gamers don’t consider more casual experiences games at all. I guess I just look at it simply. Is it compelling? Is it beautiful? Do I want to play with it? Did I learn something? Will I remember it?
ingodmode: As a curator, you’ve invited Lee Petty to participate in the show „Dig for Fire: art inspired by the Pixies“. How did that happen? Did you found him with a help of games, or you knew him as an artist before?
Kevin Titzer: I was looking around for artists for the show and I came across actual stacking dolls Lee had painted. They were wonderful and I thought he would be a great addition to the exhibition. It was not until after that I found out about his work with Double Fine. I really did not have a sense of how popular Stacking was in the gaming community.
Lee Petty: To promote the game, we had a set of five dolls made based on the actual characters in Stacking. The dolls themselves were constructed by combining hand-painted areas with printed–out textures from the actual game by a company in Russia. The dolls were designed by both me and Levi Ryken, the artist on Stacking who was primarily responsible for painting many of the final doll textures in the game. Fans can buy the dolls on Double Fine’s website (www.doublefine.com).
When I approach game making, I try to consider everything at once — mechanics, theme, art style. It’s really hard for me to say for sure which came first. My goal is for all of these elements to feel integral in the final experience. I want each element to feel like it could only have existed because all of the other elements are the way they are.
ingodmode: Kevin, do you have plans to attract more artists from gaming scene to your shows.
Kevin Titzer: Yes, I’m very open to involving more people from the gaming scene in upcoming shows. I think diversity always makes things more interesting. The bigger question is, do people in the gaming scene want to be in my shows? 
In God Mode: If Kevin would turn up to you asking to point out few gaming industry talents for his next show, who would it be? I mean… Well few first names that bumped into your mind. It‘s extremely interesting to hear the names of artists since we‘re not talking about them very often, but we should.
Lee Petty: I’m stunned by how many talented artists there are out in the world, working in a variety of mediums — video games included. It’s humbling! In terms of selecting specific artists, it would have to depend on the theme of the show, as there is quite a diversity of artists working in the industry. I’d start by looking at artists working at companies known for their original approach to visual design. As to Kevin’s comment about people in the gaming scene wanting to be involved in shows, I think the answer is absolutely! Many of the artists who work at Double Fine show regularly.
ingodmode: Many thanks for your answers and best of luck with your show.
Kevin Titzer: Thanks, I have really enjoyed this.
Lee Pettys sketches for the Russian stacking dolls being made for the show.
You’ll probably be interested in the „making of“ part of Pixie dolls. You can read about it on Lee Petty’s blog.
You’ll be able to see Lee Petty’s pixie dolls in the C.A.V.E. galery from Sept. 9th till Oct. 8th . Admission is free, more info about the upcoming show and participating artists here.
